Oh Canada.

"Svend" (svend) 08/31/2019 at 12:43 • Filed to: None

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Come on, really?

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Air Canada fined for not using French language

Air Canada has been ordered to pay a French-speaking couple 21,000 Canadian dollars (£12,900; $15,700) and write them a letter of apology for violating their linguistic rights.

The couple complained that some signs on a domestic flight they took were only in English, while others gave the French version less prominence.

A judge ruled that the airline had breached Canada’s bilingualism laws.

Air Canada reportedly told the court it would work to replace the signs.

Ontario couple Michel and Lynda Thibodeau filed 22 complaints against the airline in 2016.

Among them, they argued that the word “lift” was engraved on the buckles of their seatbelts in English but not in French, while French translations of words such as “exit” were in smaller characters.

They also said the English-language boarding announcement for their Montreal-bound flight was more thorough than the French version.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! according to the written judgment for the case.

In the ruling, the Ottawa court judge agreed that the airline had “not upheld its linguistic obligations”.

Air Canada is subject to the country’s Official Languages Act, which seeks to ensure that English and French are given equal status.

The airline had argued that the couple was interpreting the act too strictly, according to the court documents.

In an interview with Canadian broadcaster CBC, Mr Thibodeau said he was satisfied with the judgement but hoped to see signs on Air Canada flights improve in the future.

“Signage must be of equal quality,” he said. “My expectation is that within a couple of months, we will be able to fly on any Air Canada plane, and finally signage will be in both official languages.”

It is not the first time the couple have accused the airline of violating their linguistic rights. In 2014, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and would have to settle for an apology, the Toronto Sun reported.

Among them, they argued that the word “lift” was engraved on the buckles of their seatbelts in English but not in French, while French translations of words such as “exit” were in smaller characters.

Really, the word lift wasn’t etched into the belt buckle with the English word?

While English words like ‘Exit’ were in a more prominent font to the French language?

Two years ago

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The unofficial greeting in the bilingual Canadian city of Montreal has long been a friendly “Bonjour, Hi!”

But that standard is no more since a motion mandating store clerks to greet customers only in French was passed in Quebec’s provincial legislature.

The move reaffirms French as the primary language in the province, where use of English can be controversial.

The motion - which is not a law - was passed unanimously, but the province’s premier called the debate “ridiculous”.

Introduced by the fiercely Francophile Parti Quebecois, the motion “invites all businesses and workers who enter into contact with local and international clients to welcome them warmly with the word ‘bonjour’”.

“It’s about being original and being ourselves, and being ourselves is a major Francophone city with an Anglophone community,” said PQ house leader Pascal Bérubé.

Rebelling against Quebec’s ‘language police’

“First thing you have to say, I think, is ‘bonjour.’ It’s about respect, it’s easy to understand.”

Premier Philippe Couillard, a Liberal, objected to the original wording of the motion, which called the inclusion of “Hi” in greetings “an irritant”. He accused the PQ of trying to fan the flames of language war and stoke division in the province.

He said the whole debate was “ridiculous”, but agreed to vote in favour of the motion once the word “irritant” was removed.

Many in Quebec see their French identity as being under threat. It is the only Canadian province where French is the sole official language.

However, there are also sizeable Anglophone communities within Quebec, especially in the cosmopolitan hub of Montreal.

The place that banned the term grilled cheese and cocktail

The Office quebecois de la langue francaise (OQLF) oversees the preservation of the French language in the province - sometimes at the expense of commonly used words.

In 2013, an Italian restaurant came under pressure to remove “pasta” from its menu because it is not a French word.

In 2016, a restaurant called La Mama Grilled Cheese in Quebec City received a letter from the language agency chastising them for their Anglicism.

This year, the language watchdog quietly loosened some of its restrictions, allowing words like “grilled cheese”, “cocktail” and “drag queen” back into the lexicon.

So where’s the bilingualism on the French Canadian side (note I didn’t say French, because even the French don’t class French Canadians as French).

bob and john > Svend 08/31/2019 at 12:47

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fuck the quebecers.

uptight fuckwads, all of them. yes, french is our ‘official’ second language, but NO ONE aside from them speaks it. 

Svend > bob and john 08/31/2019 at 12:54

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Lol. Don’t hold back.

The Quebe cers are the only people the British, German and French jointly dislike* . Now that is saying something.

I’m positive that there are some really nice ones, but it’s almost always the not so nice ones that come over to this side of the pond with their no smoking signs to put on outside cafe and restaurant tables. Yep, seriously they do.

My mother brought one back from Tunisia as a memento of a massive argument between French Canadians and all the rest of the tourists at the hotel/ The French Canadians moved onto another hotel in the end (though one of the nights they had to come back to the hotel to eat as the hotel they moved to had an issue in the kitchen). 

For Sweden > Svend 08/31/2019 at 13:08

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Canada will accept the French language when they can buy new French cars.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Svend 08/31/2019 at 13:10

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What a fucking crock of shit.

I know three languages and busted my ass to learn French even though I don’t use it often.

People who seek to be offended like this need to go fuck themselves. Fucking disgusting people.

Don’t even get me started on how one-sided this “bilingualism” and “two official languages” bullshit is. Anglophones need to accommodate French but of course Quebec doesn’t need to accommodate English. But of course, if I were to disregard a stop sign which says “ARRET” I wouldn’t be able to argue that I didn’t understand the sign.

This isn’t justice, it’s just filthy fucking thievery. Fucking cunts.

WilliamsSW > Svend 08/31/2019 at 13:11

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This couple took a case to the supreme court because they got Sprite instead of 7up.

They should be euthanized. 

bob and john > Svend 08/31/2019 at 13:13

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they are all unsufferable douches. “oh we speak french we are better then you”

no, you speak a knock off language, none of the actual french ppl like you. They discrimiate against the english speaks a LOT too. MFer, I speak romanain and english better then you speak french, so sit the fuck down.

assholes.

They do, however, make GREAT poutine. 

Nick Has an Exocet > bob and john 08/31/2019 at 13:18

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My grandfather is French Canadian but from New Brunswick and not Quebec. I remember lots of times where he and people on that side of the family would bitch about the Québécois and their attitudes. It was kind of an endless bashing on their elitism. Of course, my grandfather grew up in a town under 600 people so I’m sure he seemed entire backwater to anyone from a city.   

Svend > For Sweden 08/31/2019 at 13:21

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And they are so close too at Saint-Pierre and Miquelon.

Svend > gin-san - shitpost specialist 08/31/2019 at 13:31

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I like that it’s not just against the English language as an Italian restaurant was sited for using the word pasta on it’s menu.

Hell many menus here have the name in Italian ith it’s ingredients in English underneath. 

Svend > bob and john 08/31/2019 at 13:35

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Ye’, when even the French don’t like you or consider you French, that’s got to hurt. 

Cé hé sin > bob and john 08/31/2019 at 13:48

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It’s spoken by some in  New Brunswick as well.

Cé hé sin > bob and john 08/31/2019 at 13:50

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I’ve been in Quebec and Québec and found each fine.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Svend 08/31/2019 at 14:07

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This kind of shit is why people hate on francophones so much. Living where I do, I work with many francophones and I’ve also served customers in French to the best of my ability (there’s no hiding that anglo accent) but the majority are decent people. Heck, I’ve had French clients tell me to speak in English if it makes me more comfortable, and we end up speaking a mix of both to each other. Most people are very reasonable.

This kind of nonsense, though, is what gets publicized and creates vitriol towards a whole people when (in this case) it’s just an irritating, vile, fucked up couple of cunts with a sense of entitlement.

Once again, fuck these people. I feel ashamed that they’re even from Ottawa and I have to share any fucking air with these scum.

Jewish Stig > Svend 08/31/2019 at 14:10

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Say what?

Tourists putting no smoking signs on private restaurant property?

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Svend 08/31/2019 at 14:26

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It sounds as if the couple understand english perfectly a nd were just being petty money grubbers. What a load of bull.

Svend > Jewish Stig 08/31/2019 at 14:35

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Ye’, they’d bring these perspex fold over no smoking signs and put them on tables outside cafe and restaurants they liked to go to. The majority of owners let it pass for a peaceful life but other tourists would get into arguments and sometimes it would escalate.

They really weren’t liked by anyone. 

Svend > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/31/2019 at 14:37

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I’d say, arseholes that know how to work the system and benef it from it.

Jewish Stig > Svend 08/31/2019 at 14:40

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This is some next level snowflake shit... 

Svend > Jewish Stig 08/31/2019 at 14:43

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Or just being C U Next Tuesdays. 

BJ > Svend 08/31/2019 at 15:10

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Lots of Quebec bashing going on in here... I’ll be honest, it’s offensive and I’m displeased to read it.

I’m not going to try to defend either side of this discussion , and I won’t deny that lots of people have shitty attitudes on both sides of the issue , because we’ll likely get all pissy at each other.

I won’t really comment directly on the news articles linked above, either . But I do have something I’d like to say in response to the comments I’ve read here , and I’ll likely get carried away, but here goes nothing...

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I would like to point something out that most non-Quebeckers don’t seem to understand or accept : Quebeckers are not French. T he Francophone culture in Quebec is not French and does not pretend to be French . Quebeckers t ake exception to being called “French” because they are very obviously not French. The French come from France .

Qué becois is a dialect (is that the right word?) of French that has evolved uniquely from the French used in France, in the same way that the French spoken in Benin or Algeria or Paris or Marseille or New Brunswick are all similar, but at the same time, very different from each other .

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Side note: Did you know that most major English-language films are dubbed in Quebec for the local market, because the “international” version that uses French-from-France sounds just wrong here; Quebeckers don’t speak the same way , and traditional French translations just don’t make the cut . Some translations sound silly or clumsy , while others are honestly just incomprehensible - we simply don’t use the same words to express certain ideas. So we took matters into our own hands and developed an industry to address the cultural needs/desires of the local population.

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Quebecois culture is unique from French culture, just as it’s unique from the francophone Acadian culture, just as it’s unique from Canada’s various flavours of anglophone culture. N o-one pretends that Newfies are the same as Ontarians are the same as Albertans are the same as BC-ers from the Island , but it seems to be problematic for some that Quebeckers identify as a unique cultural group . That’s a bit unfair, no?

Unfortunately, one tends to ignore that English colonialism was not kind to the French settlers who were well-established here before France lost control of the colonies , much in the same way the English were not kind towards Irish culture in Ireland. French-speaking Quebeckers have long felt under attack for not speaking English, and naturally they fought hard to keep their language alive. The language is a big part of their culture, which is really true in any other country/region of the world.

I don’t necessarily agree that the language laws here are actually the correct solution to the problem, because they can be easily used as a cudgel by the petty or the zealous ( see the news articles linked by the OP ) . But I won’t categorically denounce these laws either, because I understand why the people and the government felt the need to pass them in the first place.

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OK, that went better than I expected. I think I kept my cool, and I hope I managed to not be rude.

Please don’t be offended if I don’t reply to your comments on this subject. I’m afraid I - or we - may get a bit heated and say things we would regret in the morning.

Peace!

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Svend 08/31/2019 at 15:11

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I’m sure I’ve told this tale here before, but in light of this verdict it bears repeating.

Air Transat was one of my former employer’s clients, and we provided customer service agents in various places; this event took place in Florida on a flight back to Montreal. The customer was rather difficult, claiming not to speak English. Now finding bilingual agents wouldn’t be a problem in Florida, but they’re more likely to speak Spanish, not French. I don’t know what languages this agent spoke, but she was trying hard to help this jerk. After several attempts she apparently came up with a plan. Knowing that he could speak English (she apparently overheard him whilst he was in queue), she assigned him to a middle seat, in the middle of the coach cabin, the absolute worst possible place to fly. Once he heard his seat assignment he could miraculously speak English...

Dash-doorhandle-6 cyl none the richer > Svend 08/31/2019 at 15:16

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Reminds me of the time S ask RCMP mem ber was asked in english to give a ticket in french, So of course he yelled at french guy in german.  People are dicks about language all over.  

Svend > BJ 08/31/2019 at 15:20

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I agree with you and that most French Canadians are nice but almost all I’ve met and family have met haven’t been. 

Svend > BJ 08/31/2019 at 15:42

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Although the stressing that they aren’t French when all I’ve met have made a point of saying they were French rather than Canadian.

Sorry if any comments have disrespected you but my comments are from experience and not third or fourth party anecdotes. 

BJ > Svend 08/31/2019 at 16:01

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My experience is that Quebeckers definitely do not want to be considered French. Perhaps the people you’ve met wanted to impress you or just pretend to be something different? I dunno.

Svend > BJ 08/31/2019 at 16:33

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Ye’, I’ve gotten to meet many different people whilst on holiday and when I worked at an outdoor pursuits store for several years and whilst in the ambulance service.

The French Canadians have tended to want to be controlling of others, and made a point of saying they are French when you tell them they can’t queue jump, can't understand what they are saying through their accent, etc... 

For Sweden > BJ 08/31/2019 at 17:06

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I’m not sure the “Your white genocidal settlers were bad to our white genocidal settlers ” is a compelling argument.

BJ > For Sweden 08/31/2019 at 18:00

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The acts of the French towards Native Americans don’t excuse the acts of the English towards those same French.

I understand that conquest is never fair, but my point was simpl y that there’s a reason Quebeckers (and other francophones around the rest of Canada) defend their culture and their language so vigourously. They’ve been put down and treated as second-class citizens by the rest of Canada for hundreds of years simply because they don’t speak English (and perhaps also because they were Catholic, although the church has essentially  lost its grip here ).

For Sweden > BJ 08/31/2019 at 18:05

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They do not!  But marketing doesn’t care about fair or reality.

BJ > For Sweden 08/31/2019 at 18:07

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I hesitated a bit, but I guess you deserve this:

BJ > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 08/31/2019 at 18:11

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Assholes come from all over. And flying makes even nice people act like assholes sometimes.

I f it was an Air Transat flight from Florida to Montreal, then it was full of people who could help translate . My guess is that this guy was such a raging arsehole that no-one on the plane wanted to get involved, and they were all playing dumb to stay away from him .

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > BJ 08/31/2019 at 18:24

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It reminds me of a canceled flight I had from LAX to Chicago. I was stuck in line behind a raging ass, bitching and whining on his phone. When he got up to the counter he did the most stereotypical thing, pounding on the desk and barking “DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM??? ” to the poor agent that had to re- book 200 stranded passengers. I was tempted to answer his query with something flippant but kept my mouth shut. I did thank the agent for all of her help when it was my turn, something I try to do when someone has been rattled by irate and self-important pricks that were in line ahead of me.

I’m glad that when I worked in that business I worked on the ramp side of things as I don’t know if I could have handled the pressures of customer service at that time . I do it for a living now, although not for the airlines thankfull y, and I think I’m pretty good at it. T hat’s something that probably comes with age, as well as  knowing I’d have a hard time finding a job this good in the future if I were to get canned ...

BJ > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 08/31/2019 at 18:26

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“No, S ir , I don’t know who you are. But if you hand me your boarding pass and identification, I’ll be sure to find out!”

I’d probably not make it as an airline agent...

SmugAardvark > Svend 08/31/2019 at 18:26

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On the one hand, inclusion is great. Given the large French-Canadian population and the official status of both languages, the airline absolutely should do everything in their power to serve their customers by having bilingual signage.

On the other hand, this couple destroyed any good will I had towards their particular cause because of the brash pettiness involved. They aren’t suing Air Canada for the betterment of their people. They’re suing Air Canada because they think they found an easy way to make money. They are scam artists and assholes of the highest degree. So while I hope the airline corrects the issues pointed out, I also hope that these jackholes get absolutely nothing to themselves for the effort.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Dash-doorhandle-6 cyl none the richer 08/31/2019 at 19:02

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When I worked at the airport in Los Angeles most of our ramp agents were Hispanic . I would answer the phone and someone would start talking to me in Spanish. Now I only speak English and German, so I’d respond to them in German, usually by saying “ Ich verstehe dich nicht ” which means I do not understand you. Then they’d tell me that the didn’t understand what I was saying, this time in English, and afterwards   we could then communicate in a common language.

I’d frequently get calls for Jose. I’d ask which Jose. They’d say Jose Garcia. I’d ask which Jose Garcia. They would say Jose A Garcia, and I’d have to ask which Jose A Garcia. Then they’d say they want to speak to Happy, an ironic nickname that was bestowed in jest based on his piss-poor attitude towards everyone and everything. If they would have just asked for Happy in the first place we could have saved a lot of time...